Tributes to Ramsbottom RAF veteran David Frampton who died in Egerton A666 motorbike crash

RAF man David Frampton, who died in a motorbike crash yesterday.

The scene of the crash in Bolton Road, near Egerton.

First published in News
Last updated
Bury Times: Photograph of the Author by , reporter

THE family of a "highly regarded" RAF veteran have paid tribute after he was killed in a motorbike crash.

David Frampton, aged 36, from Ramsbottom, was riding his silver Honda motorbike when he was involved in a crash with an Audi A3 at about 4pm yesterday in Blackburn Road, near Egerton, Bolton.

In a statement released by police, Mr Frampton's family said: “David was a courageous, warm-hearted, devoted man who truly touched the lives of all he met. 

"He was a much beloved husband, son, brother and friend.

“David spent his life serving in the Royal Air Force Regiment on 2, 27 and 58 squadrons in Iraq and Afghanistan.

"He was very highly regarded and received international commendation for his work in the protection of our servicemen and women.

“Upon leaving the RAF he dreamt of becoming a teacher and had obtained his first post supporting children with special needs.

“David had a huge range of interests and was phenomenally well read. He loved his motorbikes, and playing golf. His loss is indescribable. Per ardua ad astra.”

Police are not treating Mr Frampton's death as suspicious and there have been no arrests.


MORE:


Mr Frampton was travelling towards Bolton and is believed to have drifted onto the wrong side of the road on a left hand bend when he hit the Audi, which was travelling in the opposite direction.

He suffered serious injuries and was pronounced dead at the scene, while the two occupants of the Audi were treated for whiplash, shock and minor cuts.

The road was closed for five hours while investigations took place.

Sgt Malcolm Bell, of Lancashire Police's road policing team, said: “We are appealing for anyone who may have witnessed the collision or seen the motorbike in the area to get in touch with us so that we can establish how this accident has happened.

“It is a very difficult time for the family of the motorcyclist and they are being supported by specially trained officers.”

Anyone with information can contact police on 101 quoting log number 0851 of August 20 or Crimestoppers, anonymously, on 0800 555111.

Comments (38)

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11:19am Thu 21 Aug 14

ohiogirl says...

RIP, but that is not the A666.
RIP, but that is not the A666. ohiogirl
  • Score: -15

12:04pm Thu 21 Aug 14

xshark says...

ohiogirl wrote:
RIP, but that is not the A666.
Well, yes and no. The picture appears to have been taken from Stones Bank Road - albeit from a very strange angle and with a lens that compresses the scence. The black car is actually on the A666, Balckburn Rd.
[quote][p][bold]ohiogirl[/bold] wrote: RIP, but that is not the A666.[/p][/quote]Well, yes and no. The picture appears to have been taken from Stones Bank Road - albeit from a very strange angle and with a lens that compresses the scence. The black car is actually on the A666, Balckburn Rd. xshark
  • Score: 14

12:14pm Thu 21 Aug 14

BlueRay79 says...

How do they know he drifted to the wrong side of the road? Was that from a witness or from the Audi driver?
How do they know he drifted to the wrong side of the road? Was that from a witness or from the Audi driver? BlueRay79
  • Score: 3

1:34pm Thu 21 Aug 14

RogerDT says...

BlueRay79 wrote:
How do they know he drifted to the wrong side of the road? Was that from a witness or from the Audi driver?
Tyre marks?
[quote][p][bold]BlueRay79[/bold] wrote: How do they know he drifted to the wrong side of the road? Was that from a witness or from the Audi driver?[/p][/quote]Tyre marks? RogerDT
  • Score: 1

1:38pm Thu 21 Aug 14

MarkAllRead says...

BlueRay79 wrote:
How do they know he drifted to the wrong side of the road? Was that from a witness or from the Audi driver?
The position of the bike, the car, the bike bits, the rider etc.. etc..
[quote][p][bold]BlueRay79[/bold] wrote: How do they know he drifted to the wrong side of the road? Was that from a witness or from the Audi driver?[/p][/quote]The position of the bike, the car, the bike bits, the rider etc.. etc.. MarkAllRead
  • Score: 4

1:40pm Thu 21 Aug 14

Richmint says...

How do they know? Their independent evidence will be various marks on the road, where debris was lying after the accident, the locations of pools of fluid and trails of fluid from the car and the motorbike and so on...

The Audi driver and/or witnesses might have said "he drifted over the line" - but the evidence above will tell the police what *actually* happened and where the vehicles were on the road at the millisecond when they collided and immediately after the collision.
How do they know? Their independent evidence will be various marks on the road, where debris was lying after the accident, the locations of pools of fluid and trails of fluid from the car and the motorbike and so on... The Audi driver and/or witnesses might have said "he drifted over the line" - but the evidence above will tell the police what *actually* happened and where the vehicles were on the road at the millisecond when they collided and immediately after the collision. Richmint
  • Score: 0

1:52pm Thu 21 Aug 14

barry g says...

My thoughts are with the family & friends of the deceased along with the driver and passenger of the car. I really do hope the driver of the car recovers from the life changing impact & shock of the accident.
My thoughts are with the family & friends of the deceased along with the driver and passenger of the car. I really do hope the driver of the car recovers from the life changing impact & shock of the accident. barry g
  • Score: 23

2:59pm Thu 21 Aug 14

MarkAllRead says...

I do wish someone could explain why such a busy and important road needs to be closed for *five hours* across rush hour?
I do wish someone could explain why such a busy and important road needs to be closed for *five hours* across rush hour? MarkAllRead
  • Score: -63

3:02pm Thu 21 Aug 14

redoctober says...

MarkAllRead wrote:
I do wish someone could explain why such a busy and important road needs to be closed for *five hours* across rush hour?
Are you for real?
[quote][p][bold]MarkAllRead[/bold] wrote: I do wish someone could explain why such a busy and important road needs to be closed for *five hours* across rush hour?[/p][/quote]Are you for real? redoctober
  • Score: 45

3:06pm Thu 21 Aug 14

bandit14 says...

MarkAllRead wrote:
I do wish someone could explain why such a busy and important road needs to be closed for *five hours* across rush hour?
So they can carry out a thorough investigation because ther was a fatality, You Moron
[quote][p][bold]MarkAllRead[/bold] wrote: I do wish someone could explain why such a busy and important road needs to be closed for *five hours* across rush hour?[/p][/quote]So they can carry out a thorough investigation because ther was a fatality, You Moron bandit14
  • Score: 67

6:15pm Thu 21 Aug 14

skintight says...

R.I.P. David.
R.I.P. David. skintight
  • Score: 13

6:16pm Thu 21 Aug 14

pradagucci says...

bandit14 wrote:
MarkAllRead wrote:
I do wish someone could explain why such a busy and important road needs to be closed for *five hours* across rush hour?
So they can carry out a thorough investigation because ther was a fatality, You Moron
It's standard protocol to close roads down so the proper investigation can be done, especially if he was prounoced dead on the scene as it reads. C'mon pal!
[quote][p][bold]bandit14[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MarkAllRead[/bold] wrote: I do wish someone could explain why such a busy and important road needs to be closed for *five hours* across rush hour?[/p][/quote]So they can carry out a thorough investigation because ther was a fatality, You Moron[/p][/quote]It's standard protocol to close roads down so the proper investigation can be done, especially if he was prounoced dead on the scene as it reads. C'mon pal! pradagucci
  • Score: 12

6:21pm Thu 21 Aug 14

pradagucci says...

I'm not saying he was driving bad on these roads but if you take a drive on these roads on a Sunday you will see motorbikes driving like it's some race track, some car drivers are also crazy! Stick to the limit regardless of where you need to be, it will only get you to your place if anything 2-3 mins quicker! It's not worth the risk........the roads are quite bumpy and full of pot holes also.....
I'm not saying he was driving bad on these roads but if you take a drive on these roads on a Sunday you will see motorbikes driving like it's some race track, some car drivers are also crazy! Stick to the limit regardless of where you need to be, it will only get you to your place if anything 2-3 mins quicker! It's not worth the risk........the roads are quite bumpy and full of pot holes also..... pradagucci
  • Score: 7

6:53pm Thu 21 Aug 14

steveG says...

MarkAllRead wrote:
I do wish someone could explain why such a busy and important road needs to be closed for *five hours* across rush hour?


I'm with you and not too far in the future this will cease.
Lazy procedures from the Police are allowed to perpetuate because of the tragic circumstances and peoples understandable sympathy, borne out by the majority of posts.
MarkAllRead wrote: I do wish someone could explain why such a busy and important road needs to be closed for *five hours* across rush hour? I'm with you and not too far in the future this will cease. Lazy procedures from the Police are allowed to perpetuate because of the tragic circumstances and peoples understandable sympathy, borne out by the majority of posts. steveG
  • Score: -21

7:02pm Thu 21 Aug 14

MarkAllRead says...

bandit14 wrote:
MarkAllRead wrote:
I do wish someone could explain why such a busy and important road needs to be closed for *five hours* across rush hour?
So they can carry out a thorough investigation because ther was a fatality, You Moron
Then you misunderstand the question. I wasn't questioning why they do it, but why it takes five hours. See how I put the *five hours* in emphasis above? Moron indeed...
[quote][p][bold]bandit14[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MarkAllRead[/bold] wrote: I do wish someone could explain why such a busy and important road needs to be closed for *five hours* across rush hour?[/p][/quote]So they can carry out a thorough investigation because ther was a fatality, You Moron[/p][/quote]Then you misunderstand the question. I wasn't questioning why they do it, but why it takes five hours. See how I put the *five hours* in emphasis above? Moron indeed... MarkAllRead
  • Score: -17

7:12pm Thu 21 Aug 14

JustBecause says...

MarkAllRead wrote:
bandit14 wrote:
MarkAllRead wrote:
I do wish someone could explain why such a busy and important road needs to be closed for *five hours* across rush hour?
So they can carry out a thorough investigation because ther was a fatality, You Moron
Then you misunderstand the question. I wasn't questioning why they do it, but why it takes five hours. See how I put the *five hours* in emphasis above? Moron indeed...
5 hrs would be about right I would have though, the initial on scene emergency services would have closed the road, would be time for accident investigation and CSI to arrive and do their bit, recovery of both vehicles, highways to make sure all debris and fluids are cleared up, all takes time.

And maybe in reality there is no rush, a bit of respect for the deceased would be apparent, it's not a scrape it up and open the road as quick as possible job, a detour for motorists isn't a problem is it?
[quote][p][bold]MarkAllRead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bandit14[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MarkAllRead[/bold] wrote: I do wish someone could explain why such a busy and important road needs to be closed for *five hours* across rush hour?[/p][/quote]So they can carry out a thorough investigation because ther was a fatality, You Moron[/p][/quote]Then you misunderstand the question. I wasn't questioning why they do it, but why it takes five hours. See how I put the *five hours* in emphasis above? Moron indeed...[/p][/quote]5 hrs would be about right I would have though, the initial on scene emergency services would have closed the road, would be time for accident investigation and CSI to arrive and do their bit, recovery of both vehicles, highways to make sure all debris and fluids are cleared up, all takes time. And maybe in reality there is no rush, a bit of respect for the deceased would be apparent, it's not a scrape it up and open the road as quick as possible job, a detour for motorists isn't a problem is it? JustBecause
  • Score: 22

7:25pm Thu 21 Aug 14

MarkAllRead says...

JustBecause wrote:
MarkAllRead wrote:
bandit14 wrote:
MarkAllRead wrote:
I do wish someone could explain why such a busy and important road needs to be closed for *five hours* across rush hour?
So they can carry out a thorough investigation because ther was a fatality, You Moron
Then you misunderstand the question. I wasn't questioning why they do it, but why it takes five hours. See how I put the *five hours* in emphasis above? Moron indeed...
5 hrs would be about right I would have though, the initial on scene emergency services would have closed the road, would be time for accident investigation and CSI to arrive and do their bit, recovery of both vehicles, highways to make sure all debris and fluids are cleared up, all takes time.

And maybe in reality there is no rush, a bit of respect for the deceased would be apparent, it's not a scrape it up and open the road as quick as possible job, a detour for motorists isn't a problem is it?
Five hours is crazy for that amount of work. I'll bet it's because an investigator or someone had to travel from miles away to get there. That particular road into Darwen and Blackburn doesn't have many alternatives, apart from huge detours. These are a problem, especially as people being late, will probably end up speeding..
[quote][p][bold]JustBecause[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MarkAllRead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bandit14[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MarkAllRead[/bold] wrote: I do wish someone could explain why such a busy and important road needs to be closed for *five hours* across rush hour?[/p][/quote]So they can carry out a thorough investigation because ther was a fatality, You Moron[/p][/quote]Then you misunderstand the question. I wasn't questioning why they do it, but why it takes five hours. See how I put the *five hours* in emphasis above? Moron indeed...[/p][/quote]5 hrs would be about right I would have though, the initial on scene emergency services would have closed the road, would be time for accident investigation and CSI to arrive and do their bit, recovery of both vehicles, highways to make sure all debris and fluids are cleared up, all takes time. And maybe in reality there is no rush, a bit of respect for the deceased would be apparent, it's not a scrape it up and open the road as quick as possible job, a detour for motorists isn't a problem is it?[/p][/quote]Five hours is crazy for that amount of work. I'll bet it's because an investigator or someone had to travel from miles away to get there. That particular road into Darwen and Blackburn doesn't have many alternatives, apart from huge detours. These are a problem, especially as people being late, will probably end up speeding.. MarkAllRead
  • Score: -14

8:37pm Thu 21 Aug 14

wsw69 says...

RIP David.

As for the hooligans who can find nothing but petty issues about this, that and the other, grow up, shut up and have some respect.
RIP David. As for the hooligans who can find nothing but petty issues about this, that and the other, grow up, shut up and have some respect. wsw69
  • Score: 30

10:15pm Thu 21 Aug 14

artistpaint says...

Rip.top fella
Rip.top fella artistpaint
  • Score: 8

10:19pm Thu 21 Aug 14

artistpaint says...

Rip.top fella.
Rip.top fella. artistpaint
  • Score: 6

10:47pm Thu 21 Aug 14

artistpaint says...

When it comes to the RAF.its respect time.....they have bombed scum past and lets hope they bomb scum present..big
When it comes to the RAF.its respect time.....they have bombed scum past and lets hope they bomb scum present..big artistpaint
  • Score: 5

10:04am Fri 22 Aug 14

MarkAllRead says...

wsw69 wrote:
RIP David.

As for the hooligans who can find nothing but petty issues about this, that and the other, grow up, shut up and have some respect.
The comments section of an article is a place to discuss the news, whatever the topic, whatever the angle. So don't expect every discussion on an article like this to be simply paying respects. If you knew him and wish to pay respects properly then send some flowers, send a card, send a message to his family. Posting a message in the comments of a news story about it is hardly paying respects, it's insulting in its lack of effort.
[quote][p][bold]wsw69[/bold] wrote: RIP David. As for the hooligans who can find nothing but petty issues about this, that and the other, grow up, shut up and have some respect.[/p][/quote]The comments section of an article is a place to discuss the news, whatever the topic, whatever the angle. So don't expect every discussion on an article like this to be simply paying respects. If you knew him and wish to pay respects properly then send some flowers, send a card, send a message to his family. Posting a message in the comments of a news story about it is hardly paying respects, it's insulting in its lack of effort. MarkAllRead
  • Score: 2

11:11am Fri 22 Aug 14

geoff. church says...

Tragic, very sorry for the family.
To all who think 5 hours road closure is a bit much, GET REAL someone died, let the police do their job and try to think of the family.
How the hell can you make such a comment !!
This road needs some attention from the local council at this bend, so as to try and prevent more incidents, there is only farm land on both sides so lets try and resolve this problem, to stop other unwanted deaths.
By the way I had to leave one car in Egerton and take my wife on a 7 mile route to get home, but due to the circumstances I fully understand why this was done.
Tragic, very sorry for the family. To all who think 5 hours road closure is a bit much, GET REAL someone died, let the police do their job and try to think of the family. How the hell can you make such a comment !! This road needs some attention from the local council at this bend, so as to try and prevent more incidents, there is only farm land on both sides so lets try and resolve this problem, to stop other unwanted deaths. By the way I had to leave one car in Egerton and take my wife on a 7 mile route to get home, but due to the circumstances I fully understand why this was done. geoff. church
  • Score: 12

12:58pm Fri 22 Aug 14

British Kuffir says...

ohiogirl wrote:
RIP, but that is not the A666.
The two run almost parallel for a short way.

It is not the first time a motorcyclist has veered across the road there, and sadly, died.
[quote][p][bold]ohiogirl[/bold] wrote: RIP, but that is not the A666.[/p][/quote]The two run almost parallel for a short way. It is not the first time a motorcyclist has veered across the road there, and sadly, died. British Kuffir
  • Score: 3

12:59pm Fri 22 Aug 14

British Kuffir says...

MarkAllRead wrote:
I do wish someone could explain why such a busy and important road needs to be closed for *five hours* across rush hour?
Because it's important that the police gather evidence, dimwit.
[quote][p][bold]MarkAllRead[/bold] wrote: I do wish someone could explain why such a busy and important road needs to be closed for *five hours* across rush hour?[/p][/quote]Because it's important that the police gather evidence, dimwit. British Kuffir
  • Score: 1

1:01pm Fri 22 Aug 14

British Kuffir says...

MarkAllRead wrote:
bandit14 wrote:
MarkAllRead wrote:
I do wish someone could explain why such a busy and important road needs to be closed for *five hours* across rush hour?
So they can carry out a thorough investigation because ther was a fatality, You Moron
Then you misunderstand the question. I wasn't questioning why they do it, but why it takes five hours. See how I put the *five hours* in emphasis above? Moron indeed...
Same answer; it takes as long as it takes, Moron!
[quote][p][bold]MarkAllRead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bandit14[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MarkAllRead[/bold] wrote: I do wish someone could explain why such a busy and important road needs to be closed for *five hours* across rush hour?[/p][/quote]So they can carry out a thorough investigation because ther was a fatality, You Moron[/p][/quote]Then you misunderstand the question. I wasn't questioning why they do it, but why it takes five hours. See how I put the *five hours* in emphasis above? Moron indeed...[/p][/quote]Same answer; it takes as long as it takes, Moron! British Kuffir
  • Score: 2

7:41pm Mon 25 Aug 14

MarkAllRead says...

British Kuffir wrote:
MarkAllRead wrote:
I do wish someone could explain why such a busy and important road needs to be closed for *five hours* across rush hour?
Because it's important that the police gather evidence, dimwit.
"Then you misunderstand the question. I wasn't questioning why they do it, but why it takes five hours. See how I put the *five hours* in emphasis?"
[quote][p][bold]British Kuffir[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MarkAllRead[/bold] wrote: I do wish someone could explain why such a busy and important road needs to be closed for *five hours* across rush hour?[/p][/quote]Because it's important that the police gather evidence, dimwit.[/p][/quote]"Then you misunderstand the question. I wasn't questioning why they do it, but why it takes five hours. See how I put the *five hours* in emphasis?" MarkAllRead
  • Score: 0

7:42pm Mon 25 Aug 14

MarkAllRead says...

British Kuffir wrote:
MarkAllRead wrote:
bandit14 wrote:
MarkAllRead wrote:
I do wish someone could explain why such a busy and important road needs to be closed for *five hours* across rush hour?
So they can carry out a thorough investigation because ther was a fatality, You Moron
Then you misunderstand the question. I wasn't questioning why they do it, but why it takes five hours. See how I put the *five hours* in emphasis above? Moron indeed...
Same answer; it takes as long as it takes, Moron!
In your eagerness to call people names on the internet (sigh), you again have failed to understand a simple question - why can it possibly take five hours? If you don't have an answer to that, it's OK you know.
[quote][p][bold]British Kuffir[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MarkAllRead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bandit14[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MarkAllRead[/bold] wrote: I do wish someone could explain why such a busy and important road needs to be closed for *five hours* across rush hour?[/p][/quote]So they can carry out a thorough investigation because ther was a fatality, You Moron[/p][/quote]Then you misunderstand the question. I wasn't questioning why they do it, but why it takes five hours. See how I put the *five hours* in emphasis above? Moron indeed...[/p][/quote]Same answer; it takes as long as it takes, Moron![/p][/quote]In your eagerness to call people names on the internet (sigh), you again have failed to understand a simple question - why can it possibly take five hours? If you don't have an answer to that, it's OK you know. MarkAllRead
  • Score: 0

4:16pm Fri 12 Sep 14

Blankcanvas1 says...

Markallread
I'm terribly sorry for the inconvenience to yourself. I can only assume you have never experienced something like this, to you the loss of someone on this road was an inconvenience to your day. Fair enough.
It was closed for 5 hours so next of kin could be notified and taken to the scene following police initial investigation and to organise removal of vehicles and make safe for you to use. This takes time as I'm sure you'll appreciate his next of kin wasn't in a rush to see where he died on hearing of his death.
I understand your frustration but put yourself in someone else's shoes and have a little humanity. I only hope you never experience this yourself
Markallread I'm terribly sorry for the inconvenience to yourself. I can only assume you have never experienced something like this, to you the loss of someone on this road was an inconvenience to your day. Fair enough. It was closed for 5 hours so next of kin could be notified and taken to the scene following police initial investigation and to organise removal of vehicles and make safe for you to use. This takes time as I'm sure you'll appreciate his next of kin wasn't in a rush to see where he died on hearing of his death. I understand your frustration but put yourself in someone else's shoes and have a little humanity. I only hope you never experience this yourself Blankcanvas1
  • Score: -1

8:34pm Sun 14 Sep 14

MarkAllRead says...

Blankcanvas1. I've experienced RTAs before, but never with a fatality. However, you have to separate the seriousness of a fatality from the procedure that follows. Sure, it's a serious incident, but that shouldn't mean that we cannot question the procedure that follows. Are you seriously suggesting that the road is closed for the time it takes for the next of kin to make it to the scene? What if the next of kin are a few hours away? What if they're on holiday? How long do they wait? Do they leave the deceased where they are until they get there? Why? Why not take them to hospital and deal with it there? The next of kin will probably have great trouble getting there anyway because the road is closed... I mean, come on, are seriously suggesting that they leave a dead body by the side of the road so that the next of kin can come and have a look at it in that place/position? Give over!

Also, it doesn't take 5 hours to remove a vehicle and sweep up. You can drive from Edinburgh to London in 5 hours for god's sake. Again, I remind you, this has nothing to do with my concern for the deceased and his family. My stating that 5 hours is a crazy duration is entirely disconnected. Things don't suddenly take longer because the incident is sadder.

Like my first question here. I'd love to know what takes 5 hours, but no-one here has been able to answer it.
Blankcanvas1. I've experienced RTAs before, but never with a fatality. However, you have to separate the seriousness of a fatality from the procedure that follows. Sure, it's a serious incident, but that shouldn't mean that we cannot question the procedure that follows. Are you seriously suggesting that the road is closed for the time it takes for the next of kin to make it to the scene? What if the next of kin are a few hours away? What if they're on holiday? How long do they wait? Do they leave the deceased where they are until they get there? Why? Why not take them to hospital and deal with it there? The next of kin will probably have great trouble getting there anyway because the road is closed... I mean, come on, are seriously suggesting that they leave a dead body by the side of the road so that the next of kin can come and have a look at it in that place/position? Give over! Also, it doesn't take 5 hours to remove a vehicle and sweep up. You can drive from Edinburgh to London in 5 hours for god's sake. Again, I remind you, this has nothing to do with my concern for the deceased and his family. My stating that 5 hours is a crazy duration is entirely disconnected. Things don't suddenly take longer because the incident is sadder. Like my first question here. I'd love to know what takes 5 hours, but no-one here has been able to answer it. MarkAllRead
  • Score: 0

9:16pm Mon 15 Sep 14

Blankcanvas1 says...

MarkAllRead wrote:
Blankcanvas1. I've experienced RTAs before, but never with a fatality. However, you have to separate the seriousness of a fatality from the procedure that follows. Sure, it's a serious incident, but that shouldn't mean that we cannot question the procedure that follows. Are you seriously suggesting that the road is closed for the time it takes for the next of kin to make it to the scene? What if the next of kin are a few hours away? What if they're on holiday? How long do they wait? Do they leave the deceased where they are until they get there? Why? Why not take them to hospital and deal with it there? The next of kin will probably have great trouble getting there anyway because the road is closed... I mean, come on, are seriously suggesting that they leave a dead body by the side of the road so that the next of kin can come and have a look at it in that place/position? Give over!

Also, it doesn't take 5 hours to remove a vehicle and sweep up. You can drive from Edinburgh to London in 5 hours for god's sake. Again, I remind you, this has nothing to do with my concern for the deceased and his family. My stating that 5 hours is a crazy duration is entirely disconnected. Things don't suddenly take longer because the incident is sadder.

Like my first question here. I'd love to know what takes 5 hours, but no-one here has been able to answer it.
The body wasn't left in situ you idiot that's not what I said. The next of kin was taken to the crash site where they were still preparing to move the vehicles. I know this because I know the next of kin. Have a little respect, I'm sorry you were inconvenienced like I said, I hope you never lose anyone you love this way, only to read some idiot whining about a road being closed for 5 hours and trying to pick holes when people try to explain why. You neglect to consider the accident investigation team mapping so you have commented with no idea as to actually what's involved and been uninterested when others have given explanation. I'm sorry you had a bad day, there is a whole group of people who had a worse one.
[quote][p][bold]MarkAllRead[/bold] wrote: Blankcanvas1. I've experienced RTAs before, but never with a fatality. However, you have to separate the seriousness of a fatality from the procedure that follows. Sure, it's a serious incident, but that shouldn't mean that we cannot question the procedure that follows. Are you seriously suggesting that the road is closed for the time it takes for the next of kin to make it to the scene? What if the next of kin are a few hours away? What if they're on holiday? How long do they wait? Do they leave the deceased where they are until they get there? Why? Why not take them to hospital and deal with it there? The next of kin will probably have great trouble getting there anyway because the road is closed... I mean, come on, are seriously suggesting that they leave a dead body by the side of the road so that the next of kin can come and have a look at it in that place/position? Give over! Also, it doesn't take 5 hours to remove a vehicle and sweep up. You can drive from Edinburgh to London in 5 hours for god's sake. Again, I remind you, this has nothing to do with my concern for the deceased and his family. My stating that 5 hours is a crazy duration is entirely disconnected. Things don't suddenly take longer because the incident is sadder. Like my first question here. I'd love to know what takes 5 hours, but no-one here has been able to answer it.[/p][/quote]The body wasn't left in situ you idiot that's not what I said. The next of kin was taken to the crash site where they were still preparing to move the vehicles. I know this because I know the next of kin. Have a little respect, I'm sorry you were inconvenienced like I said, I hope you never lose anyone you love this way, only to read some idiot whining about a road being closed for 5 hours and trying to pick holes when people try to explain why. You neglect to consider the accident investigation team mapping so you have commented with no idea as to actually what's involved and been uninterested when others have given explanation. I'm sorry you had a bad day, there is a whole group of people who had a worse one. Blankcanvas1
  • Score: -1

6:51pm Tue 16 Sep 14

MarkAllRead says...

"The body wasn't left in situ you idiot that's not what I said"
I didn't say that's what you said. I was trying to guess why the NoK would be taken to the site. If the body isn't there, then there's even *less* reason to take them. So if the body isn't left there (which of course, it shouldn't be), why are the NoK even being taken there? Why wouldn't they be on their way to hospital or wherever the body is being taken? What's the point in taking them to the crash site so that they can have a look around? If you think that this happens, then do you also know what they do when they get there? TBH I think we've concluded here that the road isn't closed for 5 hours to allow the NoK to travel to the site. That would be bizarre and pointless for many reasons.

"you have commented with no idea as to actually what's involved"
Er.. that was the *entire* point of my original post, to ask what's involved that can possibly take 5 hours. I *asked* "what's involved". Sigh.

"You neglect to consider the accident investigation team mapping"
I didn't neglect it, I *asked*! However, you think this takes 5 hours? Really?

"and been uninterested when others have given explanation"
No-one has. People have whined that I shouldn't be asking the question. People have said "because there was a fatality", which actually doesn't answer the question since it doesn't explain what it is that takes 5 hours to do, as a result of a fatality. AFAIK, I think you're the first to even have a stab at it, by mentioning the road mapping, but like I say, there's no way that can reasonably take 5 hours to do.

Anyway, I was clear in my last post to point out that analysing, reviewing and questioning the police procedure following this incident is in no way disrespectful to the incident itself. You have to separate the two. If, out of "respect", no-one questioned any official procedure during and following a terrible incident such as this, then procedures would never improve.
"The body wasn't left in situ you idiot that's not what I said" I didn't say that's what you said. I was trying to guess why the NoK would be taken to the site. If the body isn't there, then there's even *less* reason to take them. So if the body isn't left there (which of course, it shouldn't be), why are the NoK even being taken there? Why wouldn't they be on their way to hospital or wherever the body is being taken? What's the point in taking them to the crash site so that they can have a look around? If you think that this happens, then do you also know what they do when they get there? TBH I think we've concluded here that the road isn't closed for 5 hours to allow the NoK to travel to the site. That would be bizarre and pointless for many reasons. "you have commented with no idea as to actually what's involved" Er.. that was the *entire* point of my original post, to ask what's involved that can possibly take 5 hours. I *asked* "what's involved". Sigh. "You neglect to consider the accident investigation team mapping" I didn't neglect it, I *asked*! However, you think this takes 5 hours? Really? "and been uninterested when others have given explanation" No-one has. People have whined that I shouldn't be asking the question. People have said "because there was a fatality", which actually doesn't answer the question since it doesn't explain what it is that takes 5 hours to do, as a result of a fatality. AFAIK, I think you're the first to even have a stab at it, by mentioning the road mapping, but like I say, there's no way that can reasonably take 5 hours to do. Anyway, I was clear in my last post to point out that analysing, reviewing and questioning the police procedure following this incident is in no way disrespectful to the incident itself. You have to separate the two. If, out of "respect", no-one questioned any official procedure during and following a terrible incident such as this, then procedures would never improve. MarkAllRead
  • Score: 0

3:11pm Wed 17 Sep 14

Blankcanvas1 says...

MarkAllRead wrote:
"The body wasn't left in situ you idiot that's not what I said"
I didn't say that's what you said. I was trying to guess why the NoK would be taken to the site. If the body isn't there, then there's even *less* reason to take them. So if the body isn't left there (which of course, it shouldn't be), why are the NoK even being taken there? Why wouldn't they be on their way to hospital or wherever the body is being taken? What's the point in taking them to the crash site so that they can have a look around? If you think that this happens, then do you also know what they do when they get there? TBH I think we've concluded here that the road isn't closed for 5 hours to allow the NoK to travel to the site. That would be bizarre and pointless for many reasons.

"you have commented with no idea as to actually what's involved"
Er.. that was the *entire* point of my original post, to ask what's involved that can possibly take 5 hours. I *asked* "what's involved". Sigh.

"You neglect to consider the accident investigation team mapping"
I didn't neglect it, I *asked*! However, you think this takes 5 hours? Really?

"and been uninterested when others have given explanation"
No-one has. People have whined that I shouldn't be asking the question. People have said "because there was a fatality", which actually doesn't answer the question since it doesn't explain what it is that takes 5 hours to do, as a result of a fatality. AFAIK, I think you're the first to even have a stab at it, by mentioning the road mapping, but like I say, there's no way that can reasonably take 5 hours to do.

Anyway, I was clear in my last post to point out that analysing, reviewing and questioning the police procedure following this incident is in no way disrespectful to the incident itself. You have to separate the two. If, out of "respect", no-one questioned any official procedure during and following a terrible incident such as this, then procedures would never improve.
You really didn't get it when I said I knew the next of kin did you. So let me make it plain. What I told you, was what happened and I knew that because I know the next of kin and the family and thank god none of them have read your whining comments about a road being closed . Yes that's right, whining comments. Questioning procedure is one thing, you needing to know every detail as to why it took 5 hours is frankly none of your business. Stating it's nothing against the family or the fact it's a fatality doesn't diminish the offensive tone of your audacity, just because you state it beforehand, that doesn't quantify or make it ok. So how about we all shut up now and let people mourn in peace.
[quote][p][bold]MarkAllRead[/bold] wrote: "The body wasn't left in situ you idiot that's not what I said" I didn't say that's what you said. I was trying to guess why the NoK would be taken to the site. If the body isn't there, then there's even *less* reason to take them. So if the body isn't left there (which of course, it shouldn't be), why are the NoK even being taken there? Why wouldn't they be on their way to hospital or wherever the body is being taken? What's the point in taking them to the crash site so that they can have a look around? If you think that this happens, then do you also know what they do when they get there? TBH I think we've concluded here that the road isn't closed for 5 hours to allow the NoK to travel to the site. That would be bizarre and pointless for many reasons. "you have commented with no idea as to actually what's involved" Er.. that was the *entire* point of my original post, to ask what's involved that can possibly take 5 hours. I *asked* "what's involved". Sigh. "You neglect to consider the accident investigation team mapping" I didn't neglect it, I *asked*! However, you think this takes 5 hours? Really? "and been uninterested when others have given explanation" No-one has. People have whined that I shouldn't be asking the question. People have said "because there was a fatality", which actually doesn't answer the question since it doesn't explain what it is that takes 5 hours to do, as a result of a fatality. AFAIK, I think you're the first to even have a stab at it, by mentioning the road mapping, but like I say, there's no way that can reasonably take 5 hours to do. Anyway, I was clear in my last post to point out that analysing, reviewing and questioning the police procedure following this incident is in no way disrespectful to the incident itself. You have to separate the two. If, out of "respect", no-one questioned any official procedure during and following a terrible incident such as this, then procedures would never improve.[/p][/quote]You really didn't get it when I said I knew the next of kin did you. So let me make it plain. What I told you, was what happened and I knew that because I know the next of kin and the family and thank god none of them have read your whining comments about a road being closed . Yes that's right, whining comments. Questioning procedure is one thing, you needing to know every detail as to why it took 5 hours is frankly none of your business. Stating it's nothing against the family or the fact it's a fatality doesn't diminish the offensive tone of your audacity, just because you state it beforehand, that doesn't quantify or make it ok. So how about we all shut up now and let people mourn in peace. Blankcanvas1
  • Score: -1

9:50pm Wed 17 Sep 14

MarkAllRead says...

All you've said is that the NoK went to the scene. You haven't explained what they did there and whether their presence was a factor in the road being closed for 5 hours, which has *always* been the question here. Hence I asked in the last post if you knew "what they do when they get there". You haven't provided that answer, sadly. I didn't "get it", because you didn't provide it.

Questioning the procedure is my prerogative. I haven't expressed a need to "know every detail", because frankly, no details have emerged here, just guesses, propositions and insults. You say that "why it took 5 hours is frankly none of your business", but it is my business. It directly affected me, so it's my business. Let's once again remember that I'm only questioning the decision/procedure to close the road for 5 hours. I haven't questioned any aspect of the accident because sure, that's none of my business. I'm questioning the decision to close the road for 5 hours because that is my business and also that of the probably few hundred others it affected.

Put it this way - it's not the accident caused the road to be closed for 5 hours - it's the police procedure (or some aspect of it), which caused the road to be closed for 5 hours. That's all I'm questioning and all I'm trying to discuss.

Also, consider this. The very nature of that road is that it's something of an artery road from Bolton to Darwen/ Blackburn. Anyone wishing to travel from one to the other in that 5 hours has to take a pretty major detour. What if that detour, combined with people likely rushing because of their delay were to cause other accidents elsewhere? Would we then start to question why such a road needed to be closed for 5 hours?

You say "let people mourn in peace", which is fine by me. Let's remember that it isn't me who keeps dragging references to the deceased or the accident here, it's you and others that keep dragging it into the discussion. I haven't passed comment on the accident itself, the culpability, the outcome, or anything. I'm trying to steer clear of that, commenting only on the 5 hour closing of a major road.

Sorry if you find my tone "offensive", but let's not forget you called me an "idiot" earlier, yeah?
All you've said is that the NoK went to the scene. You haven't explained what they did there and whether their presence was a factor in the road being closed for 5 hours, which has *always* been the question here. Hence I asked in the last post if you knew "what they do when they get there". You haven't provided that answer, sadly. I didn't "get it", because you didn't provide it. Questioning the procedure is my prerogative. I haven't expressed a need to "know every detail", because frankly, no details have emerged here, just guesses, propositions and insults. You say that "why it took 5 hours is frankly none of your business", but it is my business. It directly affected me, so it's my business. Let's once again remember that I'm only questioning the decision/procedure to close the road for 5 hours. I haven't questioned any aspect of the accident because sure, that's none of my business. I'm questioning the decision to close the road for 5 hours because that is my business and also that of the probably few hundred others it affected. Put it this way - it's not the accident caused the road to be closed for 5 hours - it's the police procedure (or some aspect of it), which caused the road to be closed for 5 hours. That's all I'm questioning and all I'm trying to discuss. Also, consider this. The very nature of that road is that it's something of an artery road from Bolton to Darwen/ Blackburn. Anyone wishing to travel from one to the other in that 5 hours has to take a pretty major detour. What if that detour, combined with people likely rushing because of their delay were to cause other accidents elsewhere? Would we then start to question why such a road needed to be closed for 5 hours? You say "let people mourn in peace", which is fine by me. Let's remember that it isn't me who keeps dragging references to the deceased or the accident here, it's you and others that keep dragging it into the discussion. I haven't passed comment on the accident itself, the culpability, the outcome, or anything. I'm trying to steer clear of that, commenting only on the 5 hour closing of a major road. Sorry if you find my tone "offensive", but let's not forget you called me an "idiot" earlier, yeah? MarkAllRead
  • Score: 0

12:29am Thu 18 Sep 14

Blankcanvas1 says...

If you want the details the inquest details will be accessible by the public. Including all the details of the police investigation.
If it were you and your family was left with this, would you want it done thoroughly and taking 5 hours so they could answer the million questions families have over how this happened? Or would you want it done speedy and them not be able to answer those questions for your loved ones who don't actually know what happened .
I apologise for calling you an idiot but really, if you want those questions answered put in a request to the police not following a report on the death of someone whom I held very dear. For me you were hurtful and flippant with your comments around someone I loved.
It is your prerogative and it is clear that you hold that above everything else. Nothing anyone says will change that, I doubt even following a min by minute account of what was done. Sometimes questioning is good granted but in this case it was necessary and I'm sorry if people were inconvenienced but I'm gonna be selfish and say I'm glad they took 5 hours to do it, it has given some prelim answers that were helpful to the people who loved David in moving on from this terrible tragedy. For me that's the most important thing and I hope that should this befall anyone else that their loved ones are given the same consideration. Knowing everything was done with care and consideration of the person you love overrides people's annoyance of how long it took.
You carry on with yours, by all means
If you want the details the inquest details will be accessible by the public. Including all the details of the police investigation. If it were you and your family was left with this, would you want it done thoroughly and taking 5 hours so they could answer the million questions families have over how this happened? Or would you want it done speedy and them not be able to answer those questions for your loved ones who don't actually know what happened . I apologise for calling you an idiot but really, if you want those questions answered put in a request to the police not following a report on the death of someone whom I held very dear. For me you were hurtful and flippant with your comments around someone I loved. It is your prerogative and it is clear that you hold that above everything else. Nothing anyone says will change that, I doubt even following a min by minute account of what was done. Sometimes questioning is good granted but in this case it was necessary and I'm sorry if people were inconvenienced but I'm gonna be selfish and say I'm glad they took 5 hours to do it, it has given some prelim answers that were helpful to the people who loved David in moving on from this terrible tragedy. For me that's the most important thing and I hope that should this befall anyone else that their loved ones are given the same consideration. Knowing everything was done with care and consideration of the person you love overrides people's annoyance of how long it took. You carry on with yours, by all means Blankcanvas1
  • Score: 0

6:32pm Fri 19 Sep 14

MarkAllRead says...

Look, I don't begrudge there being a thorough investigation. I expect there to be. I'm only saying that such an investigation shouldn't take 5 hours, hence me asking what they are doing that can possibly take that long. I was involved in an RTA a couple of years back. No fatalities thankfully, but given the amount of damage, there could have been. Some kid in the other car ended up with a broken arm or fracture or something so police and ambulance were called. Two cars written off and bits were everywhere. Everyone was breathalysed, the other driver ended up in court for something. Cars had to be towed away, witness statements were taken, measurements were done, all of that. Nevertheless, I'd say that the road was clear again within 45 minutes and we were on the scene for perhaps 90 minutes. Given this experience, I really don't know what else they have to do that takes 5 hours to achieve.
Look, I don't begrudge there being a thorough investigation. I expect there to be. I'm only saying that such an investigation shouldn't take 5 hours, hence me asking what they are doing that can possibly take that long. I was involved in an RTA a couple of years back. No fatalities thankfully, but given the amount of damage, there could have been. Some kid in the other car ended up with a broken arm or fracture or something so police and ambulance were called. Two cars written off and bits were everywhere. Everyone was breathalysed, the other driver ended up in court for something. Cars had to be towed away, witness statements were taken, measurements were done, all of that. Nevertheless, I'd say that the road was clear again within 45 minutes and we were on the scene for perhaps 90 minutes. Given this experience, I really don't know what else they have to do that takes 5 hours to achieve. MarkAllRead
  • Score: 0

6:34pm Fri 19 Sep 14

MarkAllRead says...

Oh, and also, yes I imagine I could get a report or something from that particular accident, but I doubt that will give me a timeline of the investigation such that I can ascertain why the road was closed for 5 hours.
Oh, and also, yes I imagine I could get a report or something from that particular accident, but I doubt that will give me a timeline of the investigation such that I can ascertain why the road was closed for 5 hours. MarkAllRead
  • Score: 0

7:05pm Fri 19 Sep 14

Blankcanvas1 says...

Yep it does if you ask for it. As will records from the coroners inquest.
Like you say you were involved in a rta with no fatalities and you were all alive to say what happened. There isn't that luxury in this case and therefore the investigation had to cover more possibilities for the coroner inquest. In your opinion it shouldn't take 5 hours. In the opinion of the people investigating and the people involved and the relations of David it took that long because that's was what was needed. If you disagree I suggest you put a formal complaint to the police and request a time line under freedom of information if you really want. They will give you details after the still ongoing investigation is completed.
That's how it works and I strongly suggest that's the avenue you take as you seem so concerned about this and then you can campaign for changes if you deem necessary once you have all the info. Which no one in this forum can answer because we aren't the investigating officers or the accident investigation team or the coroner. These people can be found with a quick google search and should be able to help you.
Good luck
Yep it does if you ask for it. As will records from the coroners inquest. Like you say you were involved in a rta with no fatalities and you were all alive to say what happened. There isn't that luxury in this case and therefore the investigation had to cover more possibilities for the coroner inquest. In your opinion it shouldn't take 5 hours. In the opinion of the people investigating and the people involved and the relations of David it took that long because that's was what was needed. If you disagree I suggest you put a formal complaint to the police and request a time line under freedom of information if you really want. They will give you details after the still ongoing investigation is completed. That's how it works and I strongly suggest that's the avenue you take as you seem so concerned about this and then you can campaign for changes if you deem necessary once you have all the info. Which no one in this forum can answer because we aren't the investigating officers or the accident investigation team or the coroner. These people can be found with a quick google search and should be able to help you. Good luck Blankcanvas1
  • Score: 0

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